[MapleKandi]

Have there been any customers that have taken deliveries yet, either for the K23 or K27?

 

[kandiman]

Welcome @MapleKandi

I haven't seen any yet but according to Kandi America they will hit California roads soon:

Q4 2020 is supposed to be when deliveries kick off.

 

[MapleKandi]

I am looking forward to more everyday people's experiences, especially when it comes to range.

 

[Rush]

Hey @MapleKandi! Are you planning on the Kandi being a daily driver or a secondary vehicle?

 

[MapleKandi]

I am in Canada, so I would have to purchase in the US and import to Canada, and you won't be able to get our tax credit through that method. Plus I am at a disadvantage with the position of the USD/CAD. I would be buying as a replacement, and I'd opt for the K23 model. However, Kandi says they are going to include level 3 chargers next year (per customer service when I've asked).

My hope is that Kandi enters the Canadian market directly and can seriously undercut the other companies. If its imported direct from China, then that won't be attached to the US dollar and they could probably offer it for a much better price, especially relative to competition. Just because the exchange rate is at 79 or 80 cents (or whatever it is today) doesn't mean everything tracks exactly at that, Kandi could probably sell their cars profitably for just a 5% difference to the US price they are asking. I could see the K23 being sold under $30k CAD.

The Nissan Leaf is a perfect example of EV pricing gone awry. In the Canadian market, Nissan prices its 40kWh vehicle at base price of $44,298. They start their Plus variant with 62kWh battery at $46,898.

Aside from it being grossly overpriced, why is a huge 22kWh battery capacity difference translating in only a $2,600 difference in price? That is 5.8% difference. Batteries are the single biggest cost in an EV, so a battery size that is literally 55% larger can't statistically be only 5.8% higher in price than the other base model. In other words, companies like Nissan aren't even competing in this market, they offer it as a name only product. Few Canadians are going to spend $47k for a 40kWh EV even with a tax credit.

I want Kandi to come in and offer something for the rest of us. Their 40 kWh K23 is perfect for me: perfect size, perfect battery/features combination. But I do need a fast charger, and a competitive price. We will see. Even if I did import the car and received zero tax credit, $27,999 USD list price is about $35,000 CAD unless the dollar increases in the coming year. That's a savings of $10k over the Leaf or other products. That's more incentive for Canadians.

If Kandi did direct imports from China to Canada, the US dollar isn't a factor. They could probably offer the vehicle under $30k CAD list price, and you'd get the refundable tax credit of $5k here. Even at $25k it becomes incredibly competitive to me. The US and Canadian dollar aren't the same thing, that's a given, but the problem with EV offerings so far is that all of them (GM included) has decided to overprice their vehicles to the point where they aren't even trying to move these products in Canada. It is simply to offer the product on paper to say they've offered it.

For reference, Mitsubishi was able to offer its iMiev many years ago at a list price at $20,000 CAD and with incentives you could get it below that mark. Something is wrong in the EV market today. Kandi has an opportunity to come in and win from the failures of others. The only problem with the iMiev is that they never improved battery size or improved it. It was fine as a starter EV in 2010. The K23 is a serious replacement for a gas car, combined with a level 3 charger that is.

Sorry for the verbiage, but that is the situation from my perspective. I'm not interested in a Tesla luxury product, I just want a car that works and is decent and is electric.

 

[fanfare]

The K23 is a serious replacement for a gas car, combined with a level 3 charger that is.

I agree. I just got feedback yesterday from them that their engineers are working on facilitating a fast charger but that the fast charger won't be available until the following year. I'm hoping that for the early adopters who purchase their cars from the first batch that the fast electrical charge option can be made for them to use as well, and hopefully at no additional dollar charge.

IMHO that would make an world of a difference! Envision being able to charge at a rate of about 7 miles per minute! That would be a game changer. Unlike a Tesla, the Kandis are a lot lighter so a lesser charge equates to more miles. So a fast-charge for a Tesla would be an Ultra-Fast charge for a Kandi.

 

[MapleKandi]

Tesla is fine in its position, it shows innovative products and markets them toward wealthy customers. The Tesla Semi and other products do this for commercial clients.

However, we need an EV revolution for the rest of us. Tesla won't offer it, so I can't wait for what is coming from the competition.

 

[fanfare]

Tesla is fine in its position, it shows innovative products and markets them toward wealthy customers. The Tesla Semi and other products do this for commercial clients.

However, we need an EV revolution for the rest of us. Tesla won't offer it, so I can't wait for what is coming from the competition.

Tesla recently made the announcement it would be selling a $25K vehicle. But I didn't see anything about when nor what. Maybe it was just a publicity stunt? If it's true it is inching its way closer and closer to KANDI in it's MSRP, but that inching is slower than molasses in January. Plus, Aptera already has pre-order reservations for an EV with an MSRP that starts at $26K. Maybe Tesla was just trying to one-up Aptera?

I patiently await the next public announcement from Kandi.

 

[MapleKandi]

Tesla recently made the announcement it would be selling a $25K vehicle. But I didn't see anything about when nor what. Maybe it was just a publicity stunt? If it's true it is inching its way closer and closer to KANDI in it's MSRP, but that inching is slower than molasses in January. Plus, Aptera already has pre-order reservations for an EV with an MSRP that starts at $26K. Maybe Tesla was just trying to one-up Aptera?

I patiently await the next public announcement from Kandi.

Well, it was announced in China as a Tesla Chinese model, that could potentially be sold worldwide. It is promising, but its too little too late for me. I don't care for the Tesla brand anymore, but they can change the ship around if they want. By the time it reaches Canada I bet Tesla would overprice it at $35k.

 

[lazargozav]

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[fanfare]

Well, it was announced in China as a Tesla Chinese model, that could potentially be sold worldwide. It is promising, but its too little too late for me. I don't care for the Tesla brand anymore, but they can change the ship around if they want. By the time it reaches Canada I bet Tesla would overprice it at $35k.

Apparently the slower (speed-restricted) NEV models are already being showcased and delivered. This is the very first time that I get to see a view of the back seats. (not bad) the seats seem to have some red-threaded accents (as seen in the other videos). But I was glad to see that the rear seats were not totally pressed against the front seats. If you play this video in slow-mo you can capture a lot of interesting tell-tale info, including that which is on the sales tags. And there have already been a few comments made on the following YouTube page:

Already For Sale at "Lone Star Truck & Equipment"

Enjoy the very first available inside view of back seats:

 

[MapleKandi]

Nice, I like what i'm seeing.

 

[MapleKandi]

BTW, how fast does the NEV model go/its peak speed?

 

[fanfare]

BTW, how fast does the NEV model go/its peak speed?

It would depend on your state. I'll quote from Wikipedia: "states that authorize NEVs generally restrict their operation to streets with a maximum speed limit of 35 or 45 mph (56 or 72 km/h). Because of federal law, car dealers cannot legally sell the vehicles to go faster than 25 mph (40 km/h), but the buyer can easily modify the car to go 35 mph (56 km/h). However, if modified to exceed 25 mph (40 km/h), the vehicle then becomes subject to safety requirements of passenger cars. ... Regulations for operating an NEV vary by state. ... NEVs in many states are restricted to roads with a speed limit of 35 mph (56 km/h) or less. As of February 2012, NEVs are street-legal in 46 states." These cars can usually be easily modified by a qualified electro-mechanic to yield higher speeds. But my recommendation is to wait until their full model is authorized. That way you get your top speed of 69 miles per hour and the "Sport Mode" ... which will begin to approach the acceleration as a Mitsubishi Mirage.

It's probably worth it to wait a few more months, just for that. Otherwise you will pay for after-market modifications that could bring your top speed to 54 miles per hour and then if you swap out the tyres for slightly taller ones you end up with 58 miles per hour. And you still won't have "Sport Mode". "Sport Mode" ( a switch on your dash-board, will eat into your range; but for short trips, is a nice thing to have.

Plus, if you wait for the non NEV model to come out you can play the same game with the tyres and up your top speed from 69 mph to 74 mph (again, at the expense of range, should you decide to floor it). Just for that I think it's worth waiting a few more months.

Without using "Sport Mode" you can likely expect ranges of about 70 to 85 miles. If you drive up to 37.2 miles per hour on a dry smooth flat road and keep it at the speed constantly you may get more than a 105 miles range. If you drive it on "Sport Mode" with the AC pumping at full blast at 69 miles per hour you'll probably get the EPA range of 59 miles. And if you replace the tyres with slightly taller ones to get yourself a max speed of 74 mph, your range will likely come down to about 50 miles.

Most of this is due to the drag coefficient, which I don;t believe they have published quite yet, but the faster you to, the more wind resistance, which is why electric vehicles generally go farther the slower you drive them.

The NEV K27 model costs: $15,499 USD, whereas the highway passenger K27 model costs $17.499 USD. For those extra $2K you won't have to scratch your head about electrical mods, enjoy the "Sport Mode" option, have all the safety features and be eligible to tax incentives and rebates that could potentially make it less expensive than the base price for a Mitsubishi Mirage.

I use the Mirage as a baseline because that's what I driver right now. It's base price is around $13K. The highway passenger one is likely to end up being less than that once you factor in green incentives and rebates and what not. The K27, due to its low centre of gravity, is likely to be more stable than the Mirage.

I believe that Kandi USA is currently in the process of getting their crash tests done. That will be an important milestone. I heard they may have had to sacrifice up to 40 vehicles for that purpose. Wish them luck. And be on the lookout for whenever they decide to make their next announcement.

 

[MapleKandi]

I wasn't even aware there was this regulated market for lower speed vehicles. Was news to me.

And it is good to know that the crash tests are the only thing holding up sales, I had been trying to figure out what the delay for deliveries is and that explains it. Hopefully they get through that quickly.

 

[MapleKandi]

The Mirage is a fairly underrated ICE car, I think. I had one as a rental two summers ago, for a week, for a rather long trip. I couldn't believe the negative reviews when I started reading online. I think the problem today is that people are marketed to think they need either a race car or a mega behemoth truck or SUV, yet almost no one needs that much size or speed in practical terms. Obviously it wasn't a luxury vehicle, but it worked perfectly fine on the highway and in city streets alike.

The only thing I think car makers should do is provide a little more elbow/shoulder room in economy cars, then the rest of us who understand cars are to get from point A to B efficiently can laugh at all the people wasting money on insurance, base price, and consumption of larger vehicles. Status cars mean nothing, because the people you're trying to impress don't care. LOL The auto makers seem to have made current economy cars much smaller in shoulder room vs. economy cars from, say, the 1990's. Almost like they are purposefully trying to force people to buy an upgraded model.

 

[fanfare]

I wasn't even aware there was this regulated market for lower speed vehicles. Was news to me.

And it is good to know that the crash tests are the only thing holding up sales, I had been trying to figure out what the delay for deliveries is and that explains it. Hopefully they get through that quickly.

IMHO that's the major hurdle. Amongst other potential hurdles is deciding how and with whom to contract for dealerships and repair service around the nation and do stuff like honouring their guanratees.

And initially a minor hurdle was getting to see if they could make fast-chargers available for them, but the latest feedback is that they now plan that for 2022. One would hope they would find a way for the early adopters to somehow make use of these too once they become available.

And although this is not a hurdle, Kandi is known for swapping out batteries in less than 10 minutes at special drive-up facilities in their country of origin: China. If they could develop something like that around major cities that would be ultra-sweet. But that would likely eventually come with a separate finance plan where one would finance the vehicle and pay a swap fee for the batteries but that could also potentially lower the overall price of the vehicle and then one could potentially lease the battery or pay some form of swapping fee. The financials would need to be ironed out. I ignore what business model Kandi uses for this in China, but it is lauded as innovative over there as it would likely also be here should they decide to offer that service here as well.

 

[fanfare]

The Mirage is a fairly underrated ICE car, I think. I had one as a rental two summers ago, for a week, for a rather long trip. I couldn't believe the negative reviews when I started reading online. I think the problem today is that people are marketed to think they need either a race car or a mega behemoth truck or SUV, yet almost no one needs that much size or speed in practical terms. Obviously it wasn't a luxury vehicle, but it worked perfectly fine on the highway and in city streets alike.

The only thing I think car makers should do is provide a little more elbow/shoulder room in economy cars, then the rest of us who understand cars are to get from point A to B efficiently can laugh at all the people wasting money on insurance, base price, and consumption of larger vehicles. Status cars mean nothing, because the people you're trying to impress don't care. LOL The auto makers seem to have made current economy cars much smaller in shoulder room vs. economy cars from, say, the 1990's. Almost like they are purposefully trying to force people to buy an upgraded model.

I totally agree. I couldn't be happier with my Mirage. But, as you said, my expectations were framed differently than most lead-footed people here. That Mirage has been everywhere. Aside from normal stuff like oil changes and brake pads, it's practically maintenance free. Since 2014 all I have had to do is replace some screws on the exhaust. It still runs like new. No, it doesn't peel rubber or pop an wheelie, but that's not why I purchased it.

I strongly believe that anyone buying a Kandi K27 would also have a similar mentality. And I anticipate that in some circles it will receive the same trolling as does the Mirage. But the same trolls that would not buy a Mirage would also not be caught dead in a K27. lol The Mirage does have its fervent group of enthusiasts though and it is extremely popular in the hyper-miling community, for a car that is entirely ICE, it's mileage rivals that of much more expensive hybrids. I too rent it when I am on a trip that is farther than where I can drive with mine. The Mirage also seemed to offer more shoulder and leg and head room than the Spark and the Fiesta and a better stock stereo. Frankly, I expected it to be a dog in the snow and have been pleasantly surprised at its traction control and stability. And with chains or snow tyres, no problemo at all. My only slight gripe is the slight body roll around corners.

Also, don't forget that you can likely make oodles of money by offering something like a Kandi on Turo as a novelty eCar. if you're not familiar with Turo, it's like the AirBNB but for cars, and they offer excellent insurance plans to protect your investment and are always prompt in their customer support to both those who rent their vehicles as well also those to whom the vehicles are rented.

I'f you don't have an account yet, you can use my referral code: Turo $25 credit on your first trip. Enjoy! That would certainly be a way for you to have, not only a free but a profitable car, or even fleet of cars.

 

[fanfare]

Hey @MapleKandi! Are you planning on the Kandi being a daily driver or a secondary vehicle?

My plan is to use it as a daily driver for semi-local trips, and save my 2014 Mitsubishi Mirage for the cross-country trips. I have a family member that lives 31 miles away that I visit once a week. But the country roads to get there average about 45 to 55 mph max, so the range, IAW what the Kandi mechanics say at those speeds, should not be an issue. The range starts to drop more the faster you drive it because of the wind drag. Plus, that family member has a regular socket I can plug into right on their front porch and I'm always there for more than 2 hours. So, counting all of those factors that would yield more than enough range.

If you figure that driving it at 69 mph gives you 59 miles; and at 45 mph about 85 miles and best case scenario at constant 37.2 mph you may eke out 105 miles, you can see where 31 miles each way at my speeds should not be an issue. Plus, if it can charge fully in less than 10 hours from empty, that comes out to approximately 6 miles per hour on a standard 220V wall socket and likely 3 miles per hour on a regular 120V one. So, after staying there for, say, 2.5 hours that would give me another 7.5 miles, minimum; that would be way more than enough, even to stop at a market or pharmacy along the way.

 

[MapleKandi]

C

I totally agree. I couldn't be happier with my Mirage. But, as you said, my expectations were framed differently than most lead-footed people here. That Mirage has been everywhere. Aside from normal stuff like oil changes and brake pads, it's practically maintenance free. Since 2014 all I have had to do is replace some screws on the exhaust. It still runs like new. No, it doesn't peel rubber or pop an wheelie, but that's not why I purchased it.

I strongly believe that anyone buying a Kandi K27 would also have a similar mentality. And I anticipate that in some circles it will receive the same trolling as does the Mirage. But the same trolls that would not buy a Mirage would also not be caught dead in a K27. lol The Mirage does have its fervent group of enthusiasts though and it is extremely popular in the hyper-miling community, for a car that is entirely ICE, it's mileage rivals that of much more expensive hybrids. I too rent it when I am on a trip that is farther than where I can drive with mine. The Mirage also seemed to offer more shoulder and leg and head room than the Spark and the Fiesta and a better stock stereo. Frankly, I expected it to be a dog in the snow and have been pleasantly surprised at its traction control and stability. And with chains or snow tyres, no problemo at all. My only slight gripe is the slight body roll around corners.

Also, don't forget that you can likely make oodles of money by offering something like a Kandi on Turo as a novelty eCar. if you're not familiar with Turo, it's like the AirBNB but for cars, and they offer excellent insurance plans to protect your investment and are always prompt in their customer support to both those who rent their vehicles as well also those to whom the vehicles are rented.

I'f you don't have an account yet, you can use my referral code: Turo $25 credit on your first trip. Enjoy! That would certainly be a way for you to have, not only a free but a profitable car, or even fleet of cars.

Snow? Where are you located, your flag isn't a flag I recognize. LOL

I have driven all of the above at one point or another, a co-worker at my old job had a Fiesta, I liked it but Ford has decided to end production of all economy cars and has moved to an SUV-only format. The American auto makers made this same mistake in the 1990's, which i very much remember. They still had sedans, but most of them were so crappy and unreliable that it was a debacle. A car like the Chevy Corsica, as one example, had 5 good years of shelf life before it fell apart. That's unheard of today.

The Spark is a very good car, but the shoulder room isn't there. The K27 has more shoulder room according to measurements I've seen. That's impressive.